Bosch 3 pin idle valve on S100 & twin vanos BMW

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Alex DTA
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Joined: Fri Feb 28, 2014 1:03 pm
ECU Model: S40 Pro
Distributor: DTA
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Re: Bosch 3 pin idle valve on S100 & twin vanos BMW

Post by Alex DTA »

zdrafko51 wrote:Could someone make some guidance for advance/retard idle control. I have ITB on my 2l fiat engine with no air idle control. I use advance/retarde idle ontrol and it works good when engine is hot, but when engine is cold it acts like it has some reset function; it has some 15°of advance and engine is working good, but it seam that it has some intervals, maybe some 15 seconds, so ever 15 sec it suddenly drops advance to 0° and than it starts to slowly build advance to 15 but when engine is very cold it stalls, build up advance is to slow, drop is sudden.

Sorry for my bad english,
Chears
Sounds like the closed loop PID settings aren't correct.
To start with, turn off closed loop control.
Make sure to use the 3d map, and get it to idle reasonably well in open loop. Then you can turn on closed loop and go from there.

Post a copy of your map if you want us to help further.
zdrafko51
Posts: 22
Joined: Wed Nov 12, 2014 10:59 am
ECU Model: No ECU

Re: Bosch 3 pin idle valve on S100 & twin vanos BMW

Post by zdrafko51 »

mefmotorsport wrote:I could send you my map and you could look at the settings?
I would appreciate, my e-mail is zprhuda"AT"gmail.com
zdrafko51
Posts: 22
Joined: Wed Nov 12, 2014 10:59 am
ECU Model: No ECU

Re: Bosch 3 pin idle valve on S100 & twin vanos BMW

Post by zdrafko51 »

Alex DTA wrote:
zdrafko51 wrote:Could someone make some guidance for advance/retard idle control. I have ITB on my 2l fiat engine with no air idle control. I use advance/retarde idle ontrol and it works good when engine is hot, but when engine is cold it acts like it has some reset function; it has some 15°of advance and engine is working good, but it seam that it has some intervals, maybe some 15 seconds, so ever 15 sec it suddenly drops advance to 0° and than it starts to slowly build advance to 15 but when engine is very cold it stalls, build up advance is to slow, drop is sudden.

Sorry for my bad english,
Chears
Sounds like the closed loop PID settings aren't correct.
To start with, turn off closed loop control.
Make sure to use the 3d map, and get it to idle reasonably well in open loop. Then you can turn on closed loop and go from there.

Post a copy of your map if you want us to help further.
Thank you for fast replay, I will write all my settings, I can make a video...
zdrafko51
Posts: 22
Joined: Wed Nov 12, 2014 10:59 am
ECU Model: No ECU

Re: Bosch 3 pin idle valve on S100 & twin vanos BMW

Post by zdrafko51 »

Hello,
I have attached my map, I use S60pro ECU with latest firmware. I will now describe what I have tried so far. My engine is Fiat 2l TC 8v with ITB, cranck and cam sensor, injectors, sequential injection and audi R8 COP. The engine is runing fine. It works on 0, 5 or 15 degree of advance in open loop and it has stable RPMs. I live in Croatia and now it is cold outside up to -5°C. I do not use any way of air idle control, only sparc advance. As it was cold my car would not start so I turn of sparc advance idle control and put 15° of advance, after that it started normal. So after some time I have turn on sparc advance idle control and the idle started to behave very strange to me. The idle control from 15°to 0°comes in second but when ECU figure it out that RPMs are to low it starts to rise advance but that is going very slow so if engine is not warm it stall engine. To me it is odd, why it goes to 0°in a second instead slow as when it goes up. As I remember this was heppening to me and when it was warmer but it was not big problem. After engine warm up the idle control is working fine, it moves up and down in increments of 0.1°and it works slow. I have tried to change PID settings but it did not change the behaving of idle control, I must say that maybe my engine is little to rich on warm up. I almost never use closed loop.

Thank you and sorry for bad english,
Chears
Attachments
VFTS-2.0-26.map
(44.74 KiB) Downloaded 212 times
Alex DTA
Posts: 1622
Joined: Fri Feb 28, 2014 1:03 pm
ECU Model: S40 Pro
Distributor: DTA
Firmware Version: 79

Re: Bosch 3 pin idle valve on S100 & twin vanos BMW

Post by Alex DTA »

What RPM is the car idling at?
I ask as the max control for idle is 1290 RPM. If your car idles close to this when cold, it could be momentarily rising above this, so the PID will zero itself.

I would recommend using the 20x14 (3d) base map. This will give you complete control over what the base idle ignition should be, and help the PID loop.
At the moment it only has the main ignition map to work off, which is the same no matter what the engine temperature.
In addition the timing reduces as RPM reduces at 0% TPS, so that won't help either.
Rob Stevens
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Joined: Thu Jul 28, 2011 4:10 am
ECU Model: S100 Pro
Distributor: None-Coil On Plug :)

Re: Bosch 3 pin idle valve on S100 & twin vanos BMW

Post by Rob Stevens »

I would suggest using the 20x14 base table for the idle, but put some sensible figures in it first, no more than 30 deg. In my experience it brings the idel rpm down softly once the PID loop has control.
But before you try and rely on this control you must have a stable hot idle with around 4 deg ignition.
It's actually easier to set up than type how to do it.
My car (Elise K series) will start and idle solid from stone cold without touching the throttle
Rob Stevens
Posts: 1247
Joined: Thu Jul 28, 2011 4:10 am
ECU Model: S100 Pro
Distributor: None-Coil On Plug :)

Re: Bosch 3 pin idle valve on S100 & twin vanos BMW

Post by Rob Stevens »

Doh, Alex beat me.

Had a look at your ignition table, 46 degrees of advance sounds like too much!!! So I suspect you crank position sensor setting may be wrong.
Also your fuel map you are injecting more fuel at 20% throttle than 100% at 5800 rpm, can't be right!
Rob Stevens
Posts: 1247
Joined: Thu Jul 28, 2011 4:10 am
ECU Model: S100 Pro
Distributor: None-Coil On Plug :)

Re: Bosch 3 pin idle valve on S100 & twin vanos BMW

Post by Rob Stevens »

Also the map is set up to use MAP corection but you didn't mention if you have one fitted, not the end of the world.
zdrafko51
Posts: 22
Joined: Wed Nov 12, 2014 10:59 am
ECU Model: No ECU

Re: Bosch 3 pin idle valve on S100 & twin vanos BMW

Post by zdrafko51 »

Rob Stevens wrote:Doh, Alex beat me.

Had a look at your ignition table, 46 degrees of advance sounds like too much!!! So I suspect you crank position sensor setting may be wrong.
Also your fuel map you are injecting more fuel at 20% throttle than 100% at 5800 rpm, can't be right!
Fuel table is experimental for now because I had some lean condition under light load and light throttle, I beleve it was because ITB and injectors were to far away from valve, I have change this now. Advance my be off for some degree but not much, this engine require so much of advance, I did not believe it also but then I found in Guy Croft book this engine and on some places he had even more advance but on some other I have more so I belive it is ok. But again this can't be reason for idle control to have so odd behavior.
zdrafko51
Posts: 22
Joined: Wed Nov 12, 2014 10:59 am
ECU Model: No ECU

Re: Bosch 3 pin idle valve on S100 & twin vanos BMW

Post by zdrafko51 »

Rob Stevens wrote:Also the map is set up to use MAP corection but you didn't mention if you have one fitted, not the end of the world.
Yes I do and it is set to default, I can turn it off.
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