S60 on Motostudent bike wins the 2018 world championship

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Re: S60 on Motostudent bike wins the 2018 world championship

Postby FOXX » Mon Jan 07, 2019 8:46 am

Rob Stevens wrote:Ah I see, so the rules prohibit what exactly regarding cam sensing? I'm thinking mounting a cam sensor (as a crank sensor) only and fool the ecu

Rules prohibit opening The cam cover. The Engines are sealed and we can't open them to service crankshaft, piston, cams, gearbox. We can work on flywheel, clutch and obviously everything out of the block(intake exhaust etc). Infact we bought spare head, cams etc to measure them and study Engine pc CFD simulations to improve intake and exhaust for our high revving use, "dynamic" airbox as well
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Re: S60 on Motostudent bike wins the 2018 world championship

Postby stevieturbo » Mon Jan 07, 2019 12:33 pm

If I'm reading right, you're saying it's a single cylinder engine ?

Cant really see how a cam sensor would offer much here ? And at such high rpm, whether sequential timed injection or not, cant really see that making a difference ?
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Re: S60 on Motostudent bike wins the 2018 world championship

Postby FOXX » Mon Jan 07, 2019 1:11 pm

stevieturbo wrote:If I'm reading right, you're saying it's a single cylinder engine ?

Cant really see how a cam sensor would offer much here ? And at such high rpm, whether sequential timed injection or not, cant really see that making a difference ?

Difference at such high rpm and load? definitely nothing it's worth it.
It might help at partial loads and relatively low rpm, it can help in the gimkana(another little phase of the competition) but onestly I think there will be not a noticeable difference and the rider never complained to us for bad cruising throttle response even with barrel and high injector.
I think a phased injection in this competition can be viewed only as "research purposes"
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Re: S60 on Motostudent bike wins the 2018 world championship

Postby ignitionautosport » Mon Jan 21, 2019 5:28 am

Some (all?) models of Ducati Panigale use manifold vacuum for phasing apparently: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wrJve1_M2xs Not sure how practical that is to implement in aftermarket.
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Re: S60 on Motostudent bike wins the 2018 world championship

Postby stevieturbo » Mon Jan 21, 2019 12:47 pm

I guess if you had a pressure sensor in each...or a known cylinder intake runner then phase could be determined quite easily during cranking or at first running from the pressure variations

Once it is known, and it has a sensible crank trigger, there isnt really a lot of need to look again for cyl1. Unless you'd seen a huge number of crank trigger errors or something.

I'm sure it could be implemented on an aftermarket ecu if they offered the code to do so. But it's easier to go for a more conventional means, unless the above would be to circumvent some rules etc.
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Re: S60 on Motostudent bike wins the 2018 world championship

Postby stevieturbo » Tue Jan 22, 2019 5:54 pm

No idea if this is purely coincidence...but this very topic came up on the Motec forum.

https://www.motec.com.au/forum/viewtopi ... =47&t=4142

And their scope trace of said engine using MAP via one of the intake runners can clearly be seen. Now a flexible system that lets you use this during cranking in order to sync, and allows you to alter trigger thresholds etc would work. At present not sure if DTA would allow this though.
They must use a rising edge trigger here instead for crank.

Triumph 675R Cranking PI 22.2.13 scope pic.jpg
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Re: S60 on Motostudent bike wins the 2018 world championship

Postby FOXX » Tue Jan 22, 2019 5:58 pm

I personally use the map sensor for that purpose on my bike (KTM LC8), I use a Microsquirt. Dta not allows that. I have a high speed scope screenshot on my pc, I Will post it
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Re: S60 on Motostudent bike wins the 2018 world championship

Postby Alex DTA » Wed Jan 23, 2019 4:08 am

Anything is possible, it's just time and whether or not it's something our customers will use.
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Re: S60 on Motostudent bike wins the 2018 world championship

Postby stevieturbo » Wed Jan 23, 2019 12:27 pm

Cant use what isnt there though and it seems it is something others do already use even if it wouldnt be overly common.

But more flexibility with triggers can be helpful, albeit it does require a more experienced user to set them up.
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Re: S60 on Motostudent bike wins the 2018 world championship

Postby FOXX » Thu Jan 24, 2019 9:18 am

that's the fast logging of the MAP (on Y axis) and wheel tooths(on X axis) during cranking. Map sensor fitted on the rear cylinder intake
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